Play Bold: The Best of Season 2


Episode 2 is now at the end, and we summarize the best moments from all our fantastic guests sharing their wisdom in this last episode. It has been a privilege to have you all. I really enjoyed all the deep dives into the DNA of innovation, growth, and sustainability, as well as adjacent areas, link to this. The Play Bold philosophy is "Your aim will be not to perpetuate your existing business model but to buy time — time to build up the capabilities and resources you need to make the leap to the next S-curve intelligently" and you all contributed to putting this into color and paint pictures to be shared for coming years. 

Magnus penker's new book playbold, howto win the business game through creative destruction, is available to buy now on Amazoncom. Read the Book and, in the meantime, sit back and enjoythe playbold podcast. So welcome to Magnus panker's playbold podcast and the best bitsof season two. These can all be enjoyed while scrolling through the pages ofMagnus's new book, available on Amazon, play bold, how to win thebusiness game through creative destruction. Now it's hard to believe that Magnus as spokento another twelve fantastic guests in this latest season of playbold. Some truly interestingconversations with inspirational people who have all been more than happy to share their thoughtsand wisdom. All the episodes are now available to listen to in full fromwherever you download your podcasts, and, of course, that book is stillavailable on Amazon for you to buy and read. Now, with Magnus handingthe reins over to me for this best of season two episode, let's recampthe interviews that you can hear in full. Episode One saw Magnus Inviting Johan rouseof Lego serious play fame, and now heading up holts with campuses acrossdue by the United Kingdom and America, the Higher Education Company. It wasa chat about so many fascinating seen things, including working to turn the pandemic situationto an advantage, among many things that Magnus asked. He Got Johanto talk about their thinking on higher education online. You could say that itpretty soon became obvious that this pandemic would change a lot in our industry andI would say everybody realized that this would propel what was previously sort of experimentaland partly, you know, look down upon online education and it would propelthat into the to the forefront of higher education, and much faster than Ibelieve many people anticipated. So so we decided to develop some new courses,some versions of existing programs and a new programs based on this sort of limitlesslearning approach. But we also did something else. We wanted to go beyondthe traditional way of thinking of education, and I'm really in the spirit oflifelong learning, and there we had some early discussions with the major corporation inthe world, namely Ernst and Young, and I can say this because it'spublic now, but we've actually, at the same time as this pandemic was, you know, causing a more problems for everybody. We announced a partnershipwith Arnst in young to actually have potentially hundreds of thousands of their staff continuetheir education inside ernsting on and we would sort of take on that and shurethat it has the right quality and so forth, and then bring people onto a new program which we call the technology or a tech MBA, whichis, I believe, the very pioneering and interesting for for higher education istruly going where I believe it's going, namely small stackable elements like Lego bricks, and throughout your career, in a sense, you can be able tostack this and build sudden degrees after a while. So I believe that that'ssomething we did. We also have some interesting conversation with the US. Ireally school to do some really cool stuff. In episode two it was Daniel wantsto go over the found himself being questioned by Magnus and Daniel, withhis embraer x background, gave some really interesting insights into how he found himselfwell, both a fan of star wars and a man who, as headof embryer x, at the cutting edge of technology and using that technology tokeep innovation flowing at the needed pace.

We also heard Daniel talking about beinginfluenced by a higher purpose and the importance of that. He is what hehad to say, you know, the younger generations that they are very,very good at, you know, posing such questions to us. To dothe executives. More and more, we perceived that the real competition in themarket is for talents and we perceived that talented people they don't want to serve, you know, the the simple or interest of the shareholders of the company. They want to be part of something that is larger, that is bigger, that is capable to create a legacy, if you will, or at leasta contribution they can feel proud of building, and this has been avery strong sentiment in the history of embryer. If you were to ask me whyI think embryer is still alive a as I mentioned before, of course, there are many, you know, business related or technical related explanations Icould offer, but what I myself truly believe it is a sentiment. Itis a feeling that was there from the start because the task was so hard, you know, to establish a High Tech Company to compete globally, outof a country that has so many challenges like Brazil. That felt like,you know, climbing the highest mountain, and that was inspiring. It wasan inspiring mission. It inspired our founders, inspired our pioneers, pioneers, andit keeps inspiring us to this day. But again, as we have tomove forward, we started to realize even this, you know, aclimbing the high mountain is is not enough as an inspiration for the current generation. And thank God this is happening, because I'm really excited to see howsustainability is becoming, you know, the top one item in the future generationsagenda. We need to make sure will, you know, serve our purpose andserve our markets, serve our customers, without creating a problem for our,you know, children and our grandsons to have to solve it. It'spretty much on the contrary. We really need to create businesses that are capableto be, you know, sustainable in every sense, not only economically butsocially and environmentally, and and in our industry, this is is becoming reallythe top item in every CEO's agenda. In episode three it was Liqu apronasalt, the chief business innovation of a self. MC cruises. Now anentire rethink needed in his industry, with eyes on the future and coming backstronger. Magnus asked Luca what it is that's important about encouraging and nurturing aculture of innovation. Culture Denominator for innovation is really being interpreneurial in the approachyou manage the business, because if you are an Entrepreneurra you have the mindsetof being flexible and Agile and being able to take a risk and to lookforward and to think differently, because because, by definition, if you are anentrepreneur, you don't you want to succeed with Your Business and in orderto do that you need to be to beat to the competition and to beperceived at different by the clients. So is buying me. By definition,you are someone that is is open to see things from a different perspective,to take a risk, a step further into the risk, because you wantto succeed. So to me, you...

...know, even if you are amanager and even if you are working within an organization, Corporation, big organization, if you apply and if you're able, obviously you need to be all youneed to have also a bit of you know, feeling and the characterfor that. But if you are able to apply an entrepreneurial approach in yourbusiness, they by their business. I'm convinced that you will be more successfulin innovating and transforming your company. So a lot of people argue that,you know, innovation is just a set deputy or it just happened, butit seems that you have a pretty structured approach. So in your experience,what is important if you if you want to institutralize and structure innovation and notjust let it happen if it happened. Well, I mean innovation by definition, as we said before, something that does not exist as so is theresponsibility of the manager and the executive managing the renovation to structure the process inthe best way according to the the ecosystem and the environment where he or sheis operating. But in general, you know you mean you need to bequite a critical person in order to put together structure from one side but thesame time the care ativity from the other one, because, for example,innovation for me means also going out of the office and being outside the companyin order to to to get at the right level of contamination from people aroundthe globe, from companies around the globe, but that they could give you acompletely different perspective on things that maybe you never realized. In episode,for Andrea Alvarez Join Magnus, one of the most influential people in Brazil.She had some Matura, the largest cosmety brand in the country. It wasa truly fascinating chat that came back to that higher purpose angle once again andhow to use that approach, evil, passion and who is that is importantin your success or failure, I think. I think it would be to youknow, guide your own career and your life with this open, curiousand empathetic heart and mind. I really do. I think when you whenyou approach life and the choices you are making with that combination of openness,of curiosity and empathy, you can develop the intellectual aspect a lot more easily, I think, Ye, a lot easier than you can actually develop thesethings because as a society we put enormous pressure on the logical, intellectual,rational aspects, the hard sciences as we call them, which to me they'renot even that hard if you can be very conceptual mathematically. But it's aboutyou know, combining these aspects and then, and then really people putting people first. It is people, you know. It will be people, the onesthat will do it better or worse, that will be more or less engaged, that will come up with solutions. Are Not. And when I saypeople put people first, it's also acknowledging that we are responsible, especiallyas we go higher up and leadership positions, for creating the environments in which thepeople are operating in. And then that would maybe be my next thought, which is make sure and be attentive... the ecosystems and the environments thatyou are creating to make sure that they are safe for people to be whothey truly are, for people to bring to work their best versions and theirworst versions, because that is part of who they are, and it isprecisely in that, in that individuality, that you have amazing potential for innovation, for breakthroughs, for creativity if they feel safe to speak up, toask questions, to bring weird ideas to the table, to voice out concerns. In episode five it was Kyle Magnus Ring, Swedish serial entrepreneur found ofworld attracts, which is a startup focusing on innovating logistics with electric tracks.Magnus raised the subjects of parallel entrepreneurship and what the benefits of working that way, along with the theory of the constraints creating something new from something old and, of course, his take on the opportunity of working with an increased electrificationin so many aspects of our lives. Here is what he had to say. The opportunity with the electric is exactly what he said. If you're movingparts, less need of service and maintenance, hopefully less need of spare parts andso on. So you have to think. I think, think yourbusiness model has to be different. We all know that even for car manufactoriesin the classic world and also truck manufacturers, a very big part of their bottomline comes from off the sale, service, maintenance, spare parts andall that. And in the electric future that's not why we you will makeyour money if we look at the sustainable perspective. That, I think,is is super and that is what we try to do, as we willguarantee up time, so we will guarantee that they I mean like the AlonMuski is saying. I mean principally, you don't have to go for service. Ever, in. In the ideal world our tracks would last fifty yearsand they will never have to be serviced, no maintenance, no spare box.And of course, as we want to maintain control of the ownership overthe tracks, we have all incentives to build trucks that will last as longas possible, which is good sustainability. We also have then to to considerhow, at the end of life, how do we what can we recycle? How do we do their second life for batteries, etc. Etc.So I think our business model and sustainability goes hand in hand and and Ithink that is of course. I mean if you have a profit line thatis depending on on by and throw away, that is not sustainable. So Ithink that's that's very good. We then have to, of course,look at we have to make money out of building tracks or renting out tracksand so on, but it's we can. We have to look at the total, basically lifetime of the track and and see that that makes sense.We think that we are coming already to to what they call tcos or totalcost of ownership or total use, TCU, total use of cost of usage thatis comparable over time, all better than theesel. So that's of course, where we when we come, when the industry come to that tipping point, then there is no I mean there is no way back. Basically,and hopefully or right now there are incentives and you know, things like thatand and bands of these selans on.

That is helping us in the start, but over time there is no doubt we should become in episode six,Brent's Cooper, The New York Times best selling author of the Lean Entrepreneur andCEO of moves the needle, an expert in bringing new technologies to the marketand a man who ignites innovation in industry. Magnus got him to expand on thatimportance of culture in innovation and led us back to talking once again aboutthat higher purpose. Culture is everything, right and so. But culture isnot a slogan. Culture is the behavior of the people inside the organization.And so culture can't happen top down. We literally I had this this client, that very senior individual in a it actually a European medical device company andand you know, he sort of was declaring from on n you know,we must be agile, and he he would ask me, you'll like,why can't I just declare that we be more agile and people go be moreagile and I well, you know, we actually have to we have towork on the behavior, and that means training and practicing, means defining whatwe want to see and and of course there's multiple layers of that. Right, you have to build in what is the new role of middle management whenyou have people that are behaving differently on the ground and and leadership has tobehave in different ways. So it's great to declare it, but you know, that's like that's the beginning of the job. Best of it. Thereally hard slog the long journey, is changing this behavior so that the cultthat you want emerges from that. It's a little strategical. Something South there, and they delivering like this. You know, Great Strategy Song on powerpoints and then most companies fail to execute on it. So have you seenthat it's maybe sometime better to change the strategy based on your culture then triedto change the culture based on a new strategy? Yeah, I think that. I mean I actually don't do of what are the few consultants in theworld, but maybe doesn't do strategy. Yet it almost doves me because ofhow often that fails, and I it's almost, I don't know, thisis maybe not fair, but it's almost lazy, right. I mean it'sreally not that difficult to sit around a board table and come up with anew strategy. I mean that's kind of the easy part of it. Yeah, and so I think that the hard work again gets back to the behavior. And so I do think that there is a strategic element to it,because you know, leadership the vision that what we're just not going to dois tell you exactly how we're going to do it. Rather a matter offact, in my old book, you know from from two thousand and thirteen, the lean entrepreneur, what I would talk about myth of the visionaire andthe myth of the visionary is you know this idea, that Euriqua moment inlike yeah, and now you must deliver that d to The market. Andpeople love to use Steve Jobs and Thomas Edison and all of these other iconsas examples of visionaries, but all of those individuals were not visionaries because theyhad the spark of an idea and then went and executed on it. Theirvisionaries because there was a specific change that they wanted to make in the worldand then they spent their whole careers trying numerous different ways of achieving the change. For Episode Seven, Magnus had the pleasure of talking to Greg spilling,CEO of fantasycom. That's a platform for consumers searching for fashion and art onlinewhich, under Greg's leading hand, has seen an increase in order size bysome fifty percent and achieving two million active uses. Magne Styles Gregg how impultantinnovation was in a turnaround situation. He... the fantastic answer he gave.Oh Man, I mean, look, in most cases their innovations going tobe necessary. I mean what in my personal experience, so you know,most of the turnarounds I've been in have had a similar sort of DNA inregards to founder. Came in, ability to raise capital, had an initialthesis, built a product or established, you know, a baseline of aproduct. They got some traction and then there was a stall. You know, things didn't move forward and you know from that perspective, you know theythey were they were not able to get to profitability, they weren't able toraise capital. You know, the excitement of kind of being a start upstarted to wear off. But there was enough there that it was obvious thatthe company needed to survive, like let's let's take this thing to the nextlevel. How do we do that? And and you know, when youcome into a situation like that, you really got to identify what the blockeris. In most cases there's blockers across the board, from sales, customersupport, you know, maybe overall product strategy. You know where the productsits in the marketplace. But for us to be successful there has to beinnovation on some sort of I mean we have to evolve the company. Soyou know, I think you talked a lot about it your new book,which is fantastic and and built on probably you know, the sort of theinnovators to Alumna. It has to be that comfort with what sort of jumpingthe gap and and going to where the puck's going, not where it's been, and and driving the company to do that point. But you know,if you're not willing to change, you're not willing to innovate, you're notwilling to do things differently, there's no reason to think that the company's goingto ever be successful, especially in a turn around situation. So fantasy raisedquite much money in asked them maybe will something the city that's successfully into itand getting the right kind of correction because they have to defend the high valuation. Then over time things got better and you work with the helping them totake them to the next level. And I guess doing that you really needto make everybody not just feelself, your team, everybody to go the extramilin a commpany how do you do that? How do you motivate people to reallydo that? Yeah, no, you know is I is. Ilook back on my experiences and this might be relevant for people who are inyour audience. You know, I came out of business school and formalized trainingand and you know, and I had experience. I was an entrepreneur earlyin my career and when I when I first, you know, started toget put into this situation, it was somewhat accidental. The turnaround thing wasaccidental, but wasn't it wasn't planned. I just got brought into a company. I think my my first even though we were successful. Some of thescars that I have that I've learned from is I would almost approach these businesseslike a business case, like a Harvard business case. Here's our assets,here's what the external markets doing. Here's what we need to accomplish mood,you know, and it's a chess pieces, you know, we're going to cutthis division off here, we're going to invest here, we're going togo after this market here. There's some there's some WHITESPA place over here.And even though I was right in a lot of cases, or you know, any in executive coming in could be very right, where the rationale itwas built, you know, the the strategy was sound, if your peopleor the people there aren't willing to follow you or don't believe in it too, or don't understand why you're doing it's going to be very, very difficultto be successful. So what I've evolved to, and I think that youknow now when I think of myself as a leader with the organization and I'vegotten so much better, is the ability... create that vision across the organization, that shared purpose, where the team not just understands where we're trying togo, which is, you know, unbelievably important that we're all aligned andthere's a lineman across the organization with what the goal is, but there's afeeling of of why, why? Why? I'm want to be a part ofthis why I'm excited to go on this journey with you. And thenonce you're able to get that sort of, you know, courcursive group of peoplethat are all have a shared common goal, your strategy is going tobe much more successful and and and I think the key be part of thatis, you know, a it's setting that goal that they buy in on, but be making sure that they feel like they're part of it and thatwe're building this thing together. And I think once you do that you're goingto find it. You know, organization effectiveness is can country the roof.In Episode Eight, Frederick Anderson, entrepreneur, turnaround specialists and global transformer, aman who turns things into what you never believed possible. That said,it's not always playing sailing. There are things that go less well in anyprocess. So Magnus raised the subject that had come up in previous episodes aboutthat all important relationship with failure. Here's what he had to say. Mypersonal relationship, I always say I fairly ninety nine times that are hundred.It's a catastrophe, and that goes from my personal life and and it alsogoes to my professional life. But I also trained myself to be compassionate aboutmyself. It is how life is right and I cannot change that, butI can always try to improve by curiosity when it comes to coaching those involved, for instance, in impossible plastic or other people that I talk to privatelyor professionally. I think that be prepared. The faster you accept that you willdo more defaults and errors then you do rights. Don't put too muchpressure on yourself because it paralyzes you and you become anally new control functions andit prevents speed. And if you're not with speed and piloting, it doesn'tmean that you should be a reckless you need people around you and you alsoneed to be aware yourself that you need to manage risk, set the parametersfor what risk you can take and then you work quickly to go through deckof ideas, because only one out of hundred. I believe he's going tobe fruitful, but too many people spend too much time on saying this istheir day. They stick to the idea and the drill down and they don'thave the ability to kill the army. They yes, cling to it andplunge down money time and then in the end of cell didn't work. Ifyou apply this reasoning to the situation that the world's in right now with apandemical and no one really knows what would have happened post pandemic, I guessa very bad advice would be to go back to the roots and go backto what he did before the pandemic. I still think people think like that. They plan for a go back to an old normal, while most likelyit would be a totally new situation. If you apply your sinking to that, what advice would you give to people listening to this call to be readyto get back in the saddle off the pandemic? Yeah, I think youand I discussed once about this. What will happen after the pandemic will be? Will it be like after the the finacial crisis in the S, whichwas a disaster, or will it be the feeling on the streets in NewYork when the Second World War was over? I think that that's the big potential, that people will feel relieved and they were said, wow, nowwe have nydy to go again. And when you have energy, I thinkthat you have that possibility to become more free in new thinking, and thatwill need itself enable people to think in... ways. How it will beshaped or how it will be done. I think that no one really knowsand it's just too again, sorry, stay your ears and you will beable to detect what's going on on the streets, and that's where you findthe new trends and that's where you find the new people that has good ideasfor the future. So, yes, staying attentive and I've been listening toa few few as one of the guys I listen to podcast all is someHarris is, this a very intelligent guy, and another guy that I admire quitea lot, as you all know, how Ari, and when you listento them that it's they also are into this, that humanity has thebest time, maybe possibly ever. So if we stay true to what wewhat we like and what we want to go and have a directional set,then then we, I think, the future can be very good. Itwas in episode nine Magnus caught up with Melissa rand called with her entrepreneurial skill. She found it green hat, which encourages young women to develop and studystem topics, science, technology, engineering and mathematics, and that has alreadyreached Fiftyzero students and families. Magnus also got Melissa to expand on that fearof failure, or rather fear of not succeeding. This was Melissa's take onit. Like you said, I think it's also a cultural one. CanBe by geography, can be also by our experiences, it can be byour education, any number of things, and I think that fear goes intoa lot, which is the fear to start, the fear to succeed,even the fear to grow, the fear to play bold. You know,to come back to the title of your book, because I think this holdsus back and it and it creates the missed opportunities and I think if wetake a look at what could be, and I think that also what youknow, at the entrepreneur has that I put on often during the day,I do say something, you know, that really drives me is that whatreally pushes me to go beyond and go beyond fear is when someone tells meit's not possible, I go oh, yes, it is, yeah,yeah, I like that one. One of the older guests you grantees aprofessor in anthropology and she's actually creating her own resume. Your failure and hesaid exactly the same thing. If someone want to multivate me that time,it's not possible. I like that. That's stand trepreneurial ven and I thinkit goes very much into innovation as well. So when you work with all ofyou, you know the students, the executives and and, as BecoseSolta, we're entrepreneur for that metode. In your experience, what are thebiggest hodels to really create sustainable grows, to become sustainable and still grow atthe same time? What is hindring most organizations, I think most is actuallyhaving too much experience and what they've already done. So I find that,especially when you talk about it on an industry level, that when they're lookingto innovate, they look at other organizations in the same industry, and that'swhere I believe one of the biggest missed opportunities are. So I think thatthe possibilities that we have is to do a little bit of a crazy thing, and that is think about a completely different industry now, or even combineit, and that's where you you end up being very daring and you endup innovating to a totally different direction. And fact, in our program whenwe get together and we're always doing creative tools and design tools and so forth. I design is especially those tools to... us to think in a verydifferent direction. What if this company in this company merged, what would bethe results? What if this industry worked like that industry? What would bethe result? And that's where I think that that that opportunity for creative ideasa bounce. It was episode ten that Magnus Call Up with Gary Purcell,with an exceptional background, a man who is now a principle innovation s Canadianoperation, working regionally and internationally with Fin seg. Magnus pose the question whyis innovation so important? Yeah, I think here's where I find the theframeworks that we've developed inside Inn abase three hundred and sixty very, very,very helpful, because what they do is reinforce the fact that innovation is areally important part in a lifeblood of thriving organizations and thriving regions. That wesort of go back to the previous question. People think about it innovation as asideation really, and it's not just that, you know, like stickat going in a room and put the little stickies in the wall and stuff. It's an important part, but it isn't the only thing, and Ilike to say that that's that ideas are places that need a tension, butthere are lots of ideas that there. Really the trick is to figure outwhere you what, how, why and WHO and make sure that you've gotthat right. So, as an organization, at about being clear on where youwant to go, thinking in the end, about how you're going todo that, you know, from strategy through the commercialization, and if youfigure that out and you are able to pivot it as industries evolved, thenyour organizations can be around for a long time. And so for me,that's that's why innovation is important, because it's a critical part of you're along term presence in a market or other markets of an organization, and withoutthat we have lots of examples of fortune. Five hundred companies at last for,you know, a minute and a half because of the fact that Ihaven't really thought forward and innovative to the way that they could. I guessthat when you work across different industries and, as in your case, redions,I guess you can see common patterns when it comes to change and trust, a mation and innovation, maybe resistance. What kind of practice do you seetypically when you work with with this this issues that that's to do withgross and change. So so what I find is there absolutely is a pattern. You know there is. There is a commonality across industries and when Iwork in the financial service industry there are actually a number of different verticals withinthe industry and you know there are people that would argue that insurance is differentfrom banking and like that, and there is a difference in the product.But really, when you think about it's all about people and you know humanbehavior and structure are the the most important parts and that you can see acrossindustry. So of late I've been doing work in the many caratchuring and trabricationenvironment and in financial services and in a while there's not a lot of heavymachinery. Actually there's some in the financial services space. You know, thethe actual innovation process and the way people need to think about and whatever andthe way people behave inside, you know, the capturing hearts and mind stuff isvery similar and it all comes down to communication and whatever. So soI think about innovation to something that you have to work together to accomplish.And so to. How do you do that? Is Very similar, inmy view, across organizations, industries and countries. So here's here's how Ithink about it and you'll see a little some themes that might be similar tothe stuff we've talked about before. But to me there's for important steps.Step one is driving an agenda with a...

...coherent strategy that reflects the organization's capabilities, and we've talked about this a lot, in that you can't accomplish something ifyou don't have the capabilities to accomplish it. Step to is setting thestage for success by really understanding addressing the needs of your clients and your intronof resources and agreeing to a set of needs and I direction. Third oneis focusing on executing what you've promised and and often that's where people jump toafter the first meeting. So they get to executing and they really haven't spentthe time energy to really understand the interline needs and sometimes at the end ofthe step three, that's where people stop. In my view, there's a fourstep and that step is to make a point of asking your clients ifthey're satisfied. Try to learn from the experience that you've had with them andlook for ways to exceed those expectations with new suggestions on how that you canhelp going forward. That four step, I think, is the one ofthe biggest differentiators between the companies that I've been involved with and how successful theycan be versus others who short to jump quickly to execution, to declare completionand then move on to the next initiative. In episode eleven, Magnus was joinedby Henry Friedman and innovation professor Ih m, business school and Entrepreneur Passionfor individuals, learning and business, and the man who translated the arts ofwar. He chatted about what lessons can be learned from the past to carryus into the future. Now Magnus host him his thoughts about balancing the longterm and short term when it came to planning for the future. He iswhat Henry had to say. Oh, that's a big question. I meanthat's the challenge for everyone in senior leadership to jump between. It's like aBundee jumped between long term and short term commitments. And I mean it's soeasy to fall into the daily business and they again off today, but atthat time, that's when you actually have to step up and take your roleas a leader to give room, space and resources to actually thinking ahead,thinking for ahead, and also, if you ask your employees, that's oneof the most important part to build an or strong organization. That is thatyou have a clear vision, that you have a clear mission, and Imean first time I was hearing that in school I thought that okay, youdo that, you sign off the paper and it's done. No, it'swhen you're living that, when you really believe and commit yourself to you,as you said before, a high purpose, and that means that you can't justdo the things in the short term. You have to also work with along term of this. Interesting part is that my teas is when Iwas John Grad at PhD school, was about time awareness in study decisions.The important lessons from that study came out with that a lot of people doesn'thave the time or the capability to think that far ahead, and that waseven one of the conclusions that came out that my boss had worse time studytime awareness than the cleaning lady that I had as a pilot test for mystudies. My boss was not that excited about the result, but it's tellingyou something. This is a skill set and this is also talent. Soyou have to pick people that actually can move themselves between time and space,and that's that's important if you have to be an organization in movement, andthe society we are living in today, we have to move a lot.We have two continue as you be on the road for moving, and thenyou have to think ahead, otherwise you're...

...lost. Now Hope I've held yourfocus for this little walk through a season two, because focus is what itwas all about. Four, episode twelve, Christina Bangston, a master of Focus, a world champion precision shooter and so many other things besides, witha conversation that focused on focus and it's relevance to keeping your ideas both relevantand moving forward. One of the questions Magnus asked. So, Christina,explain how, when there's a decision to be made that you can't predict theoutcome for, how should you and how do you approach it? Yeah,it comes back to, to, as you say, a military perspective wherewe have this old fashioned perhaps, but it's really interesting still to to highlightthat expression that taking a decision, even though it's wrong, it's better thannot taking a decision at all. Yes, I agree, especially in in timeswhere something is really dangerous, which it can be in in different militaryoperations. That's where it comes from. If you stand still, the enemywill hit you. So it's kind of obvious and from a focused perspective,is actually easier to come into sharpness, discipline and focus if there is adirect threat upon you. But nowadays, you know, we don't really livein the military operations. Well, in the military we do, and insome business cases we do, but there is a large amount of time thatis for the administrative part and everyday life within the organization and again and everydaylife also from a private perspective. I believe we need to bring in theprivate perspective, like you just did, into the business. It goes handin hand much more now perhaps than it did before. Taking choices. It'simportant. Perhaps it's even more important to learn to to say no. That'salso a choice. I believe that we are so used to decide what weneed to do and to take choices to be able to get somewhere and wewant to take choices fast because otherwise someone else is taking that choice. PerhapsI or we are afraid of almost being forgotten. I laugh about this becauseI think of I might lose track now, but I promised to come back asthe focus expert I'm thinking about. It was a year ago when thepandemic and started, and many of my friends who work, if I'm allowedto say, only as a speakers or lectures, got afraid because they couldn'tcome out to the audience anymore and they started to two directly Yung jump intothe digital world, where they started to, if I'm allowed to say, producequick fix because they were afraid of being forgotten. So they thought thatthey needed to be seen every now and then on the internets, in differentplatforms. I did, of course, the opposite. I realized that,HMM, my position is to be a focus expert. I am against quickfix. I do not support quick fix. I resist to respond to people's superficiality. And now our days on the Internet, we have so much thatgoes fast. That is quick fix and if we support that, well,we will never get get away from it. So I took another way and Iwas silent and no one has forgotten me. So again, and that'salso a choice. So I feel like...

...asking the opposite. Can a choicesometimes be to decide to do nothing. Because what we need to do,also in this discussion of taking choices and how do you take choices, isto to give ourselves time to reflect. I know in your book you mentionedin the very fresh beginning, or maybe it's in the preface, Peter Drucker. The referre reference to Peter Drucker, and he said many shark things.One of the things he said was that we need time to reflect, andI think about reflecting upon the era we live in today. Is that?It makes me think also there was an author in one thousand nine hundred andsixty nine who wrote his he was Swedish. He wrote a book called the RestlessMan, and I'm thinking, if we were restless then, well,what are we so now? Because to be able to take the white choices, we need to give ourselves space and time to reflect. And I thinkgoing back to the private part, how can we learn from our own families, from our children, from our wife, from our men or from the onewe are living with or our closest friends? To give an another personisn't the best thing you can give another person, isn't that time and attention? And this is focus, because when you give another person time and attention, and it could be your employees, you give them a space where youinteract, where you find sharp solutions and where you go back into your corevalues, your core identities. You give yourself the ability to reflect upon whatreally is important and you create a space of Focus, space where you're freefrom all these distractions, all these things that wants to grab your attention allthe time, and I think this is something we can become much better upon, or better in whatever you say in English, and to create space inwhich we can reflect. So some fascinating conversations, which brings us to aclose of not only this best off episode for season two, but also theclose of this season. Will be back with more, but on behalf ofMagnus and all his guests, of course. Thank you so much for listening andwe look forward to having you back for season three, which should seemagnus back behind the microphone after the summer. And until we speak again, staysafe and play bold.

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